Entrevista com
Iván Cepeda
Jacobin
Iván Cepeda
Jacobin
 |
| O senador e candidato presidencial Iván Cepeda discursa durante um comício na noite da eleição, após as primárias presidenciais do Pacto Histórico em Bogotá, Colômbia, em outubro. 26 de fevereiro de 2025. (Nathalia Angarita / Bloomberg via Getty Images) |
Entrevista por
Pablo Castaño
Iván Cepeda é senador pelo Pacto Histórico, a aliança de esquerda que apoiou a eleição do presidente colombiano Gustavo Petro, e seu candidato para sucedê-lo na presidência nas eleições gerais de maio e junho de 2026. Defensor dos direitos humanos, Cepeda tem uma longa carreira política que o levou, em diferentes momentos, a atuar no Partido Comunista, na União Patriótica, na Aliança Democrática M-19 (partido que surgiu após a desmobilização do grupo guerrilheiro M-19 em 1990, ao qual Petro pertencia) e, posteriormente, no Polo Democrático, agora fundido com outras forças no Pacto Histórico.
Cepeda é conhecido por seu papel em diversos processos de paz com o extinto grupo guerrilheiro Forças Armadas Revolucionárias da Colômbia (FARC) e com o Exército de Libertação Nacional (ELN), uma força guerrilheira que permanece ativa após várias negociações fracassadas. Seu pai, Manuel Cepeda, deputado federal pela União Patriótica — partido que surgiu de um processo de paz com as FARC — foi assassinado em 1994 por paramilitares em uma campanha de extermínio dos líderes do partido, pela qual a Corte Interamericana de Direitos Humanos condenou o Estado colombiano. Após o assassinato de seu pai, Cepeda promoveu o Movimento Nacional pelas Vítimas, com o objetivo de obter justiça para as pessoas assassinadas por agentes do Estado e paramilitares.
Cepeda também esteve envolvido no processo judicial que culminou na condenação inicial do ex-presidente Álvaro Uribe por obstrução da justiça em um caso relacionado às suas supostas ligações com grupos paramilitares. Mesmo com o desfecho do processo ainda incerto, ele se tornou o julgamento mais famoso da Colômbia na história recente e enfraqueceu Uribe, que continua sendo a principal figura da direita colombiana.
Mal passou uma semana desde o ataque dos EUA contra a Venezuela e o sequestro de Nicolás Maduro a mando de Donald Trump, que também ameaçou repetidamente o presidente colombiano. Ao contrário de Petro, conhecido por seu estilo hiperbólico e uso frenético das redes sociais, Cepeda responde às perguntas com um tom firme, porém ponderado.
A revista Jacobin conversou com Cepeda em Madri, durante sua viagem para se encontrar com o primeiro-ministro espanhol, Pedro Sánchez, e para realizar encontros com a grande diáspora colombiana no país.
Pablo Castaño
Cepeda é conhecido por seu papel em diversos processos de paz com o extinto grupo guerrilheiro Forças Armadas Revolucionárias da Colômbia (FARC) e com o Exército de Libertação Nacional (ELN), uma força guerrilheira que permanece ativa após várias negociações fracassadas. Seu pai, Manuel Cepeda, deputado federal pela União Patriótica — partido que surgiu de um processo de paz com as FARC — foi assassinado em 1994 por paramilitares em uma campanha de extermínio dos líderes do partido, pela qual a Corte Interamericana de Direitos Humanos condenou o Estado colombiano. Após o assassinato de seu pai, Cepeda promoveu o Movimento Nacional pelas Vítimas, com o objetivo de obter justiça para as pessoas assassinadas por agentes do Estado e paramilitares.
Cepeda também esteve envolvido no processo judicial que culminou na condenação inicial do ex-presidente Álvaro Uribe por obstrução da justiça em um caso relacionado às suas supostas ligações com grupos paramilitares. Mesmo com o desfecho do processo ainda incerto, ele se tornou o julgamento mais famoso da Colômbia na história recente e enfraqueceu Uribe, que continua sendo a principal figura da direita colombiana.
Mal passou uma semana desde o ataque dos EUA contra a Venezuela e o sequestro de Nicolás Maduro a mando de Donald Trump, que também ameaçou repetidamente o presidente colombiano. Ao contrário de Petro, conhecido por seu estilo hiperbólico e uso frenético das redes sociais, Cepeda responde às perguntas com um tom firme, porém ponderado.
A revista Jacobin conversou com Cepeda em Madri, durante sua viagem para se encontrar com o primeiro-ministro espanhol, Pedro Sánchez, e para realizar encontros com a grande diáspora colombiana no país.
Pablo Castaño
Como você avalia o ataque dos EUA contra a Venezuela e as ameaças de Donald Trump contra a Colômbia e outros países da região?
Iván Cepeda
Não vejo esses eventos como aleatórios ou isolados. Todos eles estão contidos na nova doutrina dos Estados Unidos em relação ao hemisfério ocidental, claramente delineada na Estratégia de Segurança Nacional divulgada em dezembro. Essa estratégia possui uma seção intitulada "O Corolário Trump à Doutrina Monroe", onde afirma categoricamente que os Estados Unidos têm o direito de exercer hegemonia sobre todo o hemisfério ocidental para manter seus objetivos e metas estratégicas e exercer controle político, econômico e militar sobre a região.
Ela indica claramente como operar: classificar governos como amigos ou, se forem contrários aos seus interesses estratégicos, como inimigos. Consequentemente, serão tratados com chantagem e pressão caso não sigam as diretrizes de Washington. Ou simplesmente serão depostos ou eliminados, como vimos na Venezuela e estamos começando a ver na Colômbia. Essas não são ações aleatórias; nem devem ser consideradas separadamente, mas sim dentro dessa visão global da extrema-direita neofascista internacional. Somos uma zona de paz e não aceitamos interferência estrangeira.
Pablo Castaño
Você dá credibilidade às ameaças de Trump contra o presidente Gustavo Petro?
Iván Cepeda
É preciso dar total credibilidade, não sei se a uma intervenção direta, mas certamente à hostilidade de Trump e do governo dos EUA contra o nosso governo, e à intenção de impedir que o progressismo avance na Colômbia. O presidente Petro foi incluído na “Lista Clinton”, que reúne os cidadãos que os Estados Unidos consideram traficantes de drogas ou que possuem bens ligados ao narcotráfico. É um ato abertamente hostil, tomado sem qualquer justificativa pública. É a primeira vez que isso acontece contra um presidente da Colômbia.
Também vimos atentados a bomba em nossas costas e a descredenciação da Colômbia [como nação que combate o narcotráfico] após um imenso esforço contra o narcotráfico. Tudo indica que está sendo preparado um caminho não só para dificultar cada vez mais a governança de Petro, mas também para frustrar a minha possibilidade de ser eleito.
Pablo Castaño
Do you fear a direct intervention by the United States in the upcoming elections?
Iván Cepeda
Iván Cepeda
Yes. When a foreign power issues opinions against a government during an electoral period, when it says that government has favorable attitudes toward criminal organizations, that it can have a harmful effect on the region — that has a purpose. Figures from President Trump’s circle, both congresspeople and administration officials, have spoken in this way.
Pablo Castaño
Beyond the statements, do you believe there could be a more direct intervention by the US government during the campaign and the presidential and legislative elections this year in Colombia?
Iván Cepeda
We will see. There is a real danger. There are precedents.
Pablo Castaño
Does the phone call that Petro and Trump had on January 8 resolve the situation, or will it only be a pause?
Iván Cepeda
It is welcome if the purpose is to reduce hostility. But it is definitely not simply with calls [that the situation is resolved]. There are facts here that are plain to see: there is a gigantic aircraft carrier off the coast of Colombia, a military presence never seen in the past, and the president is on a list of drug traffickers. Calls are welcome, but these facts remain.
Miami and Florida have become a center of international politics, coordinating the efforts of the hemispheric far right.
Pablo Castaño
During 2025, Trump carried out hostile acts against various Latin American countries, but no regional organization — such as CELAC or Unasur — managed to agree on a common position. Do you believe that, following the attack against Venezuela, greater unity can be achieved in the region, also with conservative governments?
Iván Cepeda
More than a particular event, one must understand what political and historical moment we are in and the clear orientation that the US government has taken. Without a panoramic view, one falls into reactive or adaptive behavior. Events keep occurring and chaotic pronouncements are made. Each blow is more severe than the last, but one reacts as if it were possible to reverse the trend.
We must act with a strategic view, beyond such and such event. We must establish a strategic position: We are a sovereign continent. We are independent countries. We have unification processes, which we have been cultivating for a long time, that must be strengthened. We are a zone of peace. And we do not accept foreign interference. That is how governments and peoples must align.
Pablo Castaño
The Left has been defeated in recent elections in Chile, Honduras, Argentina, and Bolivia, in several cases by the far right. How do you explain the rapid growth of the far right in Latin America in recent years?
Iván Cepeda
You would have to look at each case — I don’t think they can be the subject of general statements without considering specific conditions. But the influence of the Trump government is significant. Miami and Florida have become a center of international politics, coordinating the efforts of the hemispheric far right. They have behind them powerful economic conglomerates, which resort to all kinds of methods. Unlike the politics carried out by the Left, dirty methods of doing politics are common on the far right. This strategic offensive on the continent — all that plays a role. There is also a strengthening of the Left in certain countries and social mobilizations in all of them.
Pablo Castaño
How has the Colombian right reacted to Trump’s threats?
Iván Cepeda
The far right is aligned with Trump and the most reactionary sectors of the United States, beginning with its head, Álvaro Uribe. Every day they go to the media to promote US intervention in Colombia.
Pablo Castaño
Could this position harm them electorally?
Iván Cepeda
Without a doubt. There may be some support in certain sectors, so lacking in dignity, for such a proposition, but in the country there is a sense of sovereignty and respect for our nation. That, I believe, has electoral effects.
Pablo Castaño
The Left came to power in Colombia for the first time four years ago with an ambitious program of social reforms. What is your assessment of Gustavo Petro’s presidency?
Iván Cepeda
It is the first government that has brought about social change, [although] not all of the changes that were wanted and not free of errors, gaps, mistakes — for example, having had to endure corruption, a serious problem that must be eradicated, and the conditions must be created so that it does not happen again in a left-wing government. There are clear social achievements, confirmed by statistical data, international organizations, and the simple fact that there is a very broad social base that supports our government and my candidacy.
Petro’s government has managed to lift more than two million people out of poverty.
It has been the first government to carry out serious agrarian reform, distributing an unprecedented amount of land without comparison in previous governments, and has formalized land titles for peasant, Afro-descendant, and indigenous communities. It has begun territorial transformations; it has managed to lift more than two million people out of poverty; it has significantly increased the minimum wage and has achieved labor and pension reforms. It is the first government to carry out a tax reform that follows the principle of progressive taxation: those who have more must pay more. There is a long list of social triumphs, which are reflected in the popular support for the government and for my candidacy.
Pablo Castaño
What are the main pending tasks of the Colombian left?
Iván Cepeda
We must focus on specific social reforms, to deepen them so they become irreversible. To lift many Colombians out of poverty, it is necessary to tackle social inequality with profound measures of change and reform to social programs. That is what I will dedicate myself to. The best way to do so is by prioritizing and strengthening a relatively small set of initiatives.
Pablo Castaño
Petro set out to achieve “total peace,” but the internal conflict remains active in Colombia. If you are elected president, what will you do to pacify the country?
Iván Cepeda
We must apply ourselves to solving the problem in the territories affected by the conflict. If there are no social changes in those territories — basic ones, such as providing water, electricity, and communication routes — it is very difficult for the peasant and agricultural economy to prosper.
Without that, the entire area is left open to the economic control of the territory by the exploitation of mineral resources, illegal gold mining, and drug trafficking. In those circumstances of economies linked to the bloody processes of the exploitation of resources and people, the conflict has a much more favorable space to deepen.
Pablo Castaño
Gustavo Petro won the elections in 2022 after a strong anti-neoliberal social movement. What role have social movements had in Petro’s government, and what role will they have in the Left’s campaign?
Iván Cepeda
A central, leading, indispensable role from my point of view. There cannot be a new progressive government that is not intimately, organically linked with social movements. It is with them that one must govern.
Pablo Castaño
How is this done in practice?
Iván Cepeda
It is done with care and attention, prioritizing it as an essential matter. There must be a permanent presence and dialogue, a constant attitude of listening and dialogue. That is not a dialogue without contradictions or disagreements, but it must be done, taking into account what [those involved in social movements] think, how they have struggled, how they have asserted their programs and aspirations.
Pablo Castaño
Beyond the statements, do you believe there could be a more direct intervention by the US government during the campaign and the presidential and legislative elections this year in Colombia?
Iván Cepeda
We will see. There is a real danger. There are precedents.
Pablo Castaño
Does the phone call that Petro and Trump had on January 8 resolve the situation, or will it only be a pause?
Iván Cepeda
It is welcome if the purpose is to reduce hostility. But it is definitely not simply with calls [that the situation is resolved]. There are facts here that are plain to see: there is a gigantic aircraft carrier off the coast of Colombia, a military presence never seen in the past, and the president is on a list of drug traffickers. Calls are welcome, but these facts remain.
Miami and Florida have become a center of international politics, coordinating the efforts of the hemispheric far right.
Pablo Castaño
During 2025, Trump carried out hostile acts against various Latin American countries, but no regional organization — such as CELAC or Unasur — managed to agree on a common position. Do you believe that, following the attack against Venezuela, greater unity can be achieved in the region, also with conservative governments?
Iván Cepeda
More than a particular event, one must understand what political and historical moment we are in and the clear orientation that the US government has taken. Without a panoramic view, one falls into reactive or adaptive behavior. Events keep occurring and chaotic pronouncements are made. Each blow is more severe than the last, but one reacts as if it were possible to reverse the trend.
We must act with a strategic view, beyond such and such event. We must establish a strategic position: We are a sovereign continent. We are independent countries. We have unification processes, which we have been cultivating for a long time, that must be strengthened. We are a zone of peace. And we do not accept foreign interference. That is how governments and peoples must align.
Pablo Castaño
The Left has been defeated in recent elections in Chile, Honduras, Argentina, and Bolivia, in several cases by the far right. How do you explain the rapid growth of the far right in Latin America in recent years?
Iván Cepeda
You would have to look at each case — I don’t think they can be the subject of general statements without considering specific conditions. But the influence of the Trump government is significant. Miami and Florida have become a center of international politics, coordinating the efforts of the hemispheric far right. They have behind them powerful economic conglomerates, which resort to all kinds of methods. Unlike the politics carried out by the Left, dirty methods of doing politics are common on the far right. This strategic offensive on the continent — all that plays a role. There is also a strengthening of the Left in certain countries and social mobilizations in all of them.
Pablo Castaño
How has the Colombian right reacted to Trump’s threats?
Iván Cepeda
The far right is aligned with Trump and the most reactionary sectors of the United States, beginning with its head, Álvaro Uribe. Every day they go to the media to promote US intervention in Colombia.
Pablo Castaño
Could this position harm them electorally?
Iván Cepeda
Without a doubt. There may be some support in certain sectors, so lacking in dignity, for such a proposition, but in the country there is a sense of sovereignty and respect for our nation. That, I believe, has electoral effects.
Pablo Castaño
The Left came to power in Colombia for the first time four years ago with an ambitious program of social reforms. What is your assessment of Gustavo Petro’s presidency?
Iván Cepeda
It is the first government that has brought about social change, [although] not all of the changes that were wanted and not free of errors, gaps, mistakes — for example, having had to endure corruption, a serious problem that must be eradicated, and the conditions must be created so that it does not happen again in a left-wing government. There are clear social achievements, confirmed by statistical data, international organizations, and the simple fact that there is a very broad social base that supports our government and my candidacy.
Petro’s government has managed to lift more than two million people out of poverty.
It has been the first government to carry out serious agrarian reform, distributing an unprecedented amount of land without comparison in previous governments, and has formalized land titles for peasant, Afro-descendant, and indigenous communities. It has begun territorial transformations; it has managed to lift more than two million people out of poverty; it has significantly increased the minimum wage and has achieved labor and pension reforms. It is the first government to carry out a tax reform that follows the principle of progressive taxation: those who have more must pay more. There is a long list of social triumphs, which are reflected in the popular support for the government and for my candidacy.
Pablo Castaño
What are the main pending tasks of the Colombian left?
Iván Cepeda
We must focus on specific social reforms, to deepen them so they become irreversible. To lift many Colombians out of poverty, it is necessary to tackle social inequality with profound measures of change and reform to social programs. That is what I will dedicate myself to. The best way to do so is by prioritizing and strengthening a relatively small set of initiatives.
Pablo Castaño
Petro set out to achieve “total peace,” but the internal conflict remains active in Colombia. If you are elected president, what will you do to pacify the country?
Iván Cepeda
We must apply ourselves to solving the problem in the territories affected by the conflict. If there are no social changes in those territories — basic ones, such as providing water, electricity, and communication routes — it is very difficult for the peasant and agricultural economy to prosper.
Without that, the entire area is left open to the economic control of the territory by the exploitation of mineral resources, illegal gold mining, and drug trafficking. In those circumstances of economies linked to the bloody processes of the exploitation of resources and people, the conflict has a much more favorable space to deepen.
Pablo Castaño
Gustavo Petro won the elections in 2022 after a strong anti-neoliberal social movement. What role have social movements had in Petro’s government, and what role will they have in the Left’s campaign?
Iván Cepeda
A central, leading, indispensable role from my point of view. There cannot be a new progressive government that is not intimately, organically linked with social movements. It is with them that one must govern.
Pablo Castaño
How is this done in practice?
Iván Cepeda
It is done with care and attention, prioritizing it as an essential matter. There must be a permanent presence and dialogue, a constant attitude of listening and dialogue. That is not a dialogue without contradictions or disagreements, but it must be done, taking into account what [those involved in social movements] think, how they have struggled, how they have asserted their programs and aspirations.
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